Issue link: https://maltatoday.uberflip.com/i/904009
maltatoday SUNDAY 19 NOVEMBER 2017 Interview 14 By Raphael Vassallo First of all, congratulations on your recent success in the PN General Council elections. These congratulations, however, come with a small proviso: you are now the General Council president of a party that – from the outside, at least – looks like it might implode any minute. Since the September elections, new leader Adrian Delia has visibly struggled to put his stamp on the party; and his efforts appear to be consistently undermined from within. Do you agree with that assessment? And if so, how do you intend to address the issue in your new position? Let me start by saying that 'looks do deceive'. I acknowledge the fact that the party appears divided and confused. But when you work within it, day and night, you also realise that it is going through a very normal process, after both a general election which gave a very unwelcome result, and also an internal leadership election. Inevitably, there will be some ini- tial division: because naturally, in any leadership election there will be opposing camps... even if they form part of the same party. In this case there were four contend- ers, and the election itself was very recent. There is an expression: 'time heals'. But the reality is that in September, a new leader was elected – Adrian Delia – in two separate rounds, which he won fairly and democratically. But ob- viously, some will have been disap- pointed, either because they were working to elect a different leader, or perhaps because they don't have faith in Adrian Delia. That's why I agree that, from the outside, the party seems to be in disarray. But working on the inside, you see a different picture: the meetings we are having, the bridge-building that is taking place... the people who tell us, 'At first we wanted to have nothing to do with Adrian Delia... but today, we're following him in Parliament; we're following the way he communicates... we're getting to know him better." The problem before was that people didn't know him: except for what they followed on the social media. So many people tell us: 'We didn't vote for him; but today, we're very happy with him and backing him all the way.' Despite all the media spin – especially the Labour me- dia, which portray the state of the PN as the only problem that exists in the country... because it accom- modates them to do so – I think the reality is different. That may well be, but the electorate is also receiving very mixed messages from the PN under its new leader. For instance: Delia recently came out saying that 'Malta is not a mafia state'... and he was immediately contradicted by Jason Azzopardi (his own MP) on Facebook. It seems like these are more than just teething problems. Isn't it also true that Delia is facing a backbencher revolt? There is disagreement, but no revolt. I would say that is also the beauty of politics, in any party. The PN is home to many divergent views... we don't agree on every- thing, and we agree not to agree on everything. I, for instance, do not agree that Mata is a mafia state. I am proud of my country, and of the financial services sector that was ultimately implemented by the PN. But I also believe that there are corrupt politicians, espe- cially in the corrupt practices un- der the present government... Do you only see corrupt politicians in the Labour Party? Or would you acknowledge that an element of corruption exists also in the PN? I don't think that's a fair state- ment... Well, let's start with Adrian De- lia. Chris Said - his main rival in the leadership race - has just tabled a motion requesting a parliamentary investigation into allegations made by Daphne Caruana Galizia... among others, about Delia's involvement with organised crime... Agreed... but you mentioned a very important word: 'allega- tions'... In the case of the offshore Jersey account held by Delia on behalf of Soho mobsters running a prostitution racket... that wasn't an allegation. It's a fact. But it's not illegal to hold off- shore accounts... Then why is the PN pointing fingers at Konrad Mizzi, Keith Schembri over the same issue? It's not the same issue at all. Kon- rad Mizzi opened a bank account in the same week as he become a minister, and committed himself to deposit a million euros a year... when his annual salary is 50k. In Delia's case we are going back 20 years. The case was investigated by Scotland Yard, and they found no wrongdoing... Not exactly. First of all, Delia's case dates back to 2006. Secondly, the UK police only investigated the actual prostitution that was taking place in Greek Street, Soho... not necessarily the associated money laundering offences. It seems to me you see criminality only where you want to see it... But he wasn't a minister at the time. Are we saying that a private citizen can't have a perfectly legal bank account? The issue is not the legality of the account itself; it is the use to which it was put. And it is not just a question of 'corruption', either. The issue here is criminality. Do you think it is appropriate that the PN should be led by someone with such shady past connections? What I can definitely say is that, when I decided to support Adrian Delia... I had asked about him; I did my research – within limits, naturally... I am not an 'investiga- tor'. But I looked into the allega- tions. Like Scotland Yard, I found nothing wrong. So yes, I believe he is well-placed to lead the PN... es- pecially in today's reality. We have just incurred two large electoral defeats - not to mention European and local council elections – and so I believe that the PN, at this time, needs a leader like Dr Adri- an Delia. But it's not just me say- ing this: let's not forget that Delia contested an election, and got the majority of votes both among the party councillors and the mem- bers. I am not unique in thinking the way I do: my views reflect the democratic process the party went through last summer. But yes, I also believed in him before those elections... it's not as though I was swept off my feet by the prevail- ing current. Over time, the more I followed him, the more I believed that, yes, we need Delia as leader... The elections you mentioned are reflections of the Nationalist Party's internal structures: the council, the card-holding members, etc. But they tell us nothing about the views of the wider Nationalist electorate. Meanwhile, there is evidence that Delia has not won over the hearts and minds of PN voters. A recent Torca survey suggests that, if an election were held tomorrow, Labour would win by over 70,000 votes. Are you concerned about this? Regarding the Torca survey: once again, it doesn't surprise me. You follow politics as much as I do. We all know that even one day is a long time in politics... let alone five years. We are still in the embryon- ic stage of the new leadership. And a lot of the so-called 'confusion' is being amplified. The media, in- cluding the social media, focuses on the PN's 'internal turmoil' through a magnifying glass. Most of the time, this turmoil will be just a clash of ideas, which I consider to be perfectly normal... especially when we are still going through an internal election process. We are still electing the deputy lead- ership... and next week, there will be elections for other posts. So I can understand that there are seg- ments of the Nationalist electorate that feel orphaned... Nonetheless, part of your job as party president is now to address this apparent discontent. How do you propose doing that? It is up to me, as president of the PN council – but also up to the party as whole – to continue with the process of bridge-build- ing. I know it's been said before: you're probably sick of hearing it, in fact. But we have to go down to street-level and listen to the peo- ple. I believe very much in people- based politics. I believe that is the only way. As for Adrian Delia: he is the type of person who convinces when you meet him. So I think his most important role right now is to meet as many people as he can, and talk to them. And they can ask him questions about the issues that concern them. When I said I supported Delia's leadership bid... I didn't follow him blindly. At the beginning I didn't even know him. So whenever there was a media story about him, I used to confront him with it: 'Is this true, or untrue? Convince me about this...' At the same time, however, Delia's takeover of the PN didn't follow the usual pattern. When Alfred Sant resigned as PL leader after 2008, he withdrew from the scene altogether to give Muscat space as new leader. Gonzi did the same for Busuttil in 2013. This hasn't happened with Delia. Busuttil is still omnipresent at all the public protests in the wake of Daphne Caruana Galizia's murder, for instance. The BBC even interviewed him as 'Opposition leader', two weeks after he resigned. Doesn't this suggest that Delia's leadership is still being contested in spite of his victory? There is a big difference from the case of Alfred Sant and Jo- seph Muscat. Sant had practically anointed Muscat as his successor. Muscat therefore had his path laid out for him to slide easily into the leadership. To me, that's a case of the democratic process being – not just bitten, but torn to pieces, with a party leader literally placed into his position like that... Wasn't it the same with Eddie Fenech Adami and Lawrence Gonzi? Or for that matter, with Gonzi and Simon Busuttil? I don't think so. Gonzi had a hard-fought leadership battle at the time... Well, Muscat had to face off against George Abela, Evarist Bartolo and Marie-Louise Coleiro... Yes, but it was very clear that Muscat was Sant's favourite. Meanwhile you mentioned the public protests. Simon Busuttil is one of 28 PN MPs who attended those protests; Delia decided not to, for several reasons. I think this is another game played by the media, to suggest internal dissent within the party. As for the BBC... Looks can be We are still in the embryonic stage of the new leadership. And a lot of the so-called 'confusion' is being amplified. The media, including the social media, focuses on the PN's 'internal turmoil' through a magnifying glass CONFUSION PHOTOGRAPHY BYJAMES BIANCHI