Issue link: https://maltatoday.uberflip.com/i/972198
maltatoday SUNDAY 22 APRIL 2018 Interview 15 [Pause] Yes. But now that we have achieved the objective of defeat- ing the Nationalist Party... now, we have the privilege of being able to improve the Labour Party, and con- tinue delivering progressive change to society.... Why, then are we not seeing any significant change in the Labour Party right now? All we're seeing is more of the same... No, it is happening. Now, there will be a leadership race, and things will change. Joseph Muscat has already said he will be resigning, so now is a good time to lay the groundwork for the future of the party. But Joseph Muscat is the only one who has declared he's going to resign – not for any reasons connected with corruption, either – while the only two people who have actually been caught with their pants down are still in their positions today. Isn't that just a case of Muscat taking the fall for two corrupt colleagues? Well, first of all I think Joseph Muscat took the wrong decision in retaining those two people in power. There's nothing justifying that deci- sion. So I wouldn't say he would be taking the fall unjustly, in that case. As for Mizzi and Schembri, it's not a given that they will remain, either. That's the struggle which should be fought for. It's a struggle for the fu- ture of the party... Meanwhile, there are questions surrounding the 'progressive agenda' itself. As 'Front Kontra c-Censura' chairman, you have been criticised for being very active and vocal under the Nationalists... yet very silent on similar issues under Labour. It's not as though freedom of speech is no longer under threat: apart from the obvious example (Daphne Caruana Galizia's murder) there have been attempts to shut down dissident voices... excessive lawsuits, posters pulled down overnight, etc... a public broadcasting service that farcically distorts reality... Are you too close to Labour to criticise them on that score? No. The Front Against Censor- ship had very specific, very practi- cal, legislative proposals. And once Labour was in government, Labour applied these reforms. Not only that: Labour went even further in reforming libel laws, for instance, taking huge steps forward in that field. I would say the Front's objec- tives in changing those laws, have been fulfilled. But I should also re- mark that, yes, there has been cor- ruption in the last five years. But in the last five years, Labour has also achieved great progress in terms of legislation, civil rights... even in terms of social development, such as childcare, etc. And in the Labour Party, and government, there are a lot of people who are progressive- minded. A lot of good can come out of the Labour Party and govern- ment. I'm not a cynical person who will say: 'I will go back to the streets and protest'. Because... come on. The bottom line is that you need to take power. If you don't take power, you cannot change things. That's how change is achieved: by taking power. Of course, a lot of compro- mises will have to be made in the process. But there's no other alter- native to it. The bottom line is, you have to take power... OK, fair enough: but is there any reason why the PN should not look at things the same way, and conclude that... the only important thing is that we're in power, and not them? The Nationalists would do the same thing they have always done, every time they were in power. They will privatise things, take kick- backs... The same could be said for Labour, from a different perspective. In the 1970s, Labour had a nationalisation policy, which often translated into simply wresting private businesses away from their rightful owners. How is it that you only see a danger in the PN's rightwing ideology, and not in Labour's entire history of left- wing extremism? Not to mention corruption: what position is Labour in, to talk about corruption after the 1970s and 1980s? How can we ever trust Labour again on that score? We... right now, it is admittedly difficult to trust Labour on cor- ruption. But once again, I would return to my previous point. When the Labour Party was a lot weaker than it is today – when it was led by Alfred Sant, who waged a very consistent campaign against cor- ruption... and he also proved it, in his two years in government: that is why he faced a lot of challenges, and a lot of interests putting spokes in his wheels. But while Labour campaigned against corruption, there was a very huge and effective campaign to deride and discredit it. That is why it is very difficult for people like me to bring this argu- ment back into the Labour Party. Because it hasn't worked, for so many years. Why should we do it now? That is mentality of the La- bour hardcore. And they are right, you know. They are right; they have a legitimate reason to think that way. That is the reality. So it's a struggle; but it is a struggle and a challenge that is now worth fight- ing for. We have won elections by a landslide, so the discussion will not compromise the Labour Party electorally in any way... Would you say that 'Joseph Muscat stepping down' – which he said he'd do anyway – has become a necessity for this discussion to take place? Well, I would say... yes. If it takes Joseph Muscat to step down, so that Keith Schembri and Konrad Mizzi would go... I would say it's a neces- sary development the party would have to go through. But I want to be a gentleman here... I want to give credit to Joseph Muscat for all the progress he has achieved on censor- ship, for instance; and even for his support for the book industry, espe- cially, which has taken great strides forward in the past five years. What- ever else he did, he still deserves recognition for that. But at the same time, we also have to move forward on other issues. Historian and activist MARK CAMILLERI admits it's hard to trust Labour on corruption today. But the party he identifies with is now in a unique position to undertake the necessary internal reforms If it takes Joseph Muscat to step down, so that Keith Schembri and Konrad Mizzi would go... I would say it's a necessary development the party would have to go through. But I want to be a gentleman here... I want to give credit to Joseph Muscat for all the progress he has achieved JOSEPH MUSCAT spade